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Beit Midrash
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- Bemare Habazak - Rabbis Questions
Answer: The gemara (Berachot 28b) reports that Rav Huna forbade any amount of eating before Musaf, but it concludes that the halacha is not like this opinion. However, Rishonim infer from the gemara (Ta’anit 26b) about not doing Birkat Kohanim at a time when people could be drunk that we assume that people do not have a meal before Musaf. In fact, the former gemara only rejects Rav Huna, who forbade te’ima (lit., tasting). The limit on eating is out of concern it will cause one to forget to daven (see Taz, OC 286:2; Shemirat Shabbat K’hilchata 52:(54)). Therefore, the simple answer is that it is permitted if one is careful about what/how much people will eat.
As the distinction between eating and tasting appears elsewhere (see Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chayim 639:2, regarding eating outside the sukka) the Shulchan Aruch (OC 286:3) allows up to a k’beitza (size of an egg) of bread and any amount of "fruit." Poskim posit that a k’beitza is the limit for pat haba’ah b’kisnin (baked grain-based foods, e.g., cake). There is less certainty regarding limits on grain-based cooked foods (e.g., cholent) (see Shemirat Shabbat K’hilchata 52:(52); Ishei Yisrael 36:76). There is no limit on non-alcoholic beverages (ibid.).
The mitzva to make Kiddush before eating starts after davening, (Shulchan Aruch, OC 289:1), which prevalent practice takes to mean Shacharit (a less accepted position is that it is after Musaf – see Tzitz Eliezer VI:7). This complicates matters somewhat. One needs to eat at least a k’zayit of bread or the like (see more in Living the Halachic Process II, C-3) to fulfill the halachot of Kiddush (Shulchan Aruch, OC 273:5; Mishna Berura ad loc. 21). Since an egg is only twice or three times larger than an olive (see Shulchan Aruch, OC 486:1), and considering the many opinions on these measurements, it is a feat to eat a food with confidence that it is between a k’zayit and a k’beitza. So without significant care, and cooperation of the participants, the Kiddush may violate either the halachot of Kiddush or of eating before Musaf.
There are indeed times when the minhag of many is to make Kiddush before Musaf, specifically on Simchat Torah and Rosh Hashana (on the latter, some justify the minhag in favor (Tzitz Eliezer ibid.) while others oppose it (Mateh Ephrayim 588:2). To compare to our case, Rosh Hashana has a special mitzva we prefer not to precede by eating – shofar blowing. On the other hand, on Rosh Hashana and Simchat Torah, there is a special need, as people will otherwise fast into the afternoon, which is difficult physically and is perhaps (beyond our scope) a halachic problem as well (see Teshuvot V’hanhagot V:175). Some explain that since the problem is forgetting to do the mitzva, if people eat as part of a congregation, there is no realistic concern that everyone will forget (see Minchat Yitzchak V:111).
In your case, the matter of objective need appears missing, but since you refer to a minyan of people, the decreased concern does. Thus, there is room for leniency even if some may eat more than the poskim otherwise allow (especially women and children, whose obligation in Musaf is less clear/weaker – see Shemirat Shabbat K’hilchata 52:(54)). Another thing in your favor is that this is a unique situation; we would not want to create a new minhag regarding regular Shabbatot. (We do not consider the practice of "Kiddush clubs," opposed by the rabbinic community, a minhag, or a model to follow.)
Our practical guidance is that early Kiddush is proper only for significant need, which we, from afar, leave to you to ascertain. You mention Kiddush before Kri’at Hatorah, which can be considered if that is part of the practical need. However, due to indications of Kri’at Hatorah being somewhat connected to Shacharit, it is preferable to do the Kiddush only after it (see Piskei Teshuvot 286:8).
Kuzari -Rabbi Ari Shvat Kuzari class 8- "Answering Questions on the Kuzari's Proof from Mass Revelation
Rabbis in Midrash
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Kuzari -Rabbi Ari Shvat Kuzari class 9 - "Seeing is Believing" (parag. 21-30)
These paragraphs elaborate on the theme that seeing and knowing is better than any attempt to prove logically, and begins explaining the difference between Israel and gentiles.
Ein Aya Various Universal Stages of the Geula Process
Rav Kook examines the various stages of redemption, explaining how (in addition to the obvious oft-mentioned stages of ingathering the exiles, reviving the Hebrew language, army, state etc.) the messianic dream of world prosperity, the State of Israel and world unity can and are realistically and logically gradually coming true.
Kuzari -Rabbi Ari Shvat Kuzari class 8- "Answering Questions on the Kuzari's Proof from Mass Revelation
How do we know that the "claim" of mass revelation to 2,000,000 witnesses at Mt. Sinai is really true? This important class answers all of the questions skeptics ask about this claim of the Kuzari.
Ein Aya Armies Still Necessary for Balance & the War Against Wars
Rav Kook explains why the world was originally divided into the various seemingly contradicting ideologies and cultures, in order to develop each one respectively. Swords or armies symbolize how each respective ideology defends themselves, as well as deters their opposing ideologies and cultures. On the other hand, the messianic era will be one of peace, and Rav Kook explains the transition to that stage, which mankind is already undergoing.
The Land of Israel LGBT'S IN ISRAEL
The question was asked, how can one make Aliyah with the LGBT parades?
Kuzari -Rabbi Ari Shvat Kuzari class 7 - Five Accumulative Proofs of G-d
As a preparation for the Kuzari's classic proof of G-d from the mass-revelation at Sinai, we start here with 5 other directions to strengthen our belief which also contribute to what the Kuzari will present as well.
Ein Aya Muscle & Meaning: The Dual Nature of Gevurah (Physical Strength)
Is physical strength and fitness a necessity or an ideal? Although it if often totally overlooked among topics of Judaism, Rav Kook writes that it clearly is also a necessity to deter the many enemies of Israel, but even in Y'mot HaMashiach, in the Messianic era, to a certain extent, it's ideal continues even after our enemies will have been finished off.
