YeshivaThe torah world Gateway
Beit Midrash
- Sections
- Chemdat Yamim
- Bemare Habazak - Rabbis Questions
Answer: [We will divide our discussion into two. This week we will analyze the main sources and logic of the competing positions.]
There are two classical sources that are cited as the source that six men reciting Shemoneh Esrei in the presence of another four men in the room is considered tefilla b’tzibbur (davening with a minyan). The Rambam (Tefilla 8:4) describes chazarat hashatz, with everyone listening to a chazan, as the main element of tefilla b’tzibbur and then says that it is sufficient for six of the participants to be people who have not yet davened. We apply the rule of following the majority to set the character of the whole, and thus this is considered a minyan. Many see this as evidence that the Rambam holds that six people davening in the presence of ten is tefilla b’tzibbur (see Yechaveh Da’at V:7).
The Magen Avraham (69:4) says that while chazarat hashatz can be done for even one person who has not davened, it is preceded by a silent Shemoneh Esrei only if six men are presently davening. Several Acharonim (including Minchat Yitzchak IX:6, based on Shulchan Aruch Harav 69:5, and Mishna Berura 69:8) understand that the reason the silent Shemoneh Esrei before chazarat hashatz is justified is because it is considered tefilla b’tzibbur. Again, we ostensibly see that six is enough in this regard.
Apparently supporting the other camp, the Chayei Adam (19:1) says that the main element of tefilla b’tzibbur is having ten men davening Shemoneh Esrei together, as opposed to the misconception that a minyan for Kaddish, Kedusha, and Barchu suffices. This seems to indicate that six daveners plus four others present is not a fulfillment of tefilla b’tzibbur. Perplexingly, the Mishna Berura cites without comment both the Magen Avraham/Shulchan Aruch Harav (69:8) and the Chayei Adam (90:28). Members of the "lenient camp" explain the Chayei Adam as stressing that Kaddish/Kedusha/Barchu is not enough; by ten, he meant a majority of the ten men davening in the presence of the others.
Bemare Habazak - Rabbis Questions (657)
Rabbi Daniel Mann
255 - Serving as Chazan on the Shabbat Before a Yahrtzeit
256 - How Many People Together to Start Shemoneh Esrei? – part I
257 - Meaningless Suit
Load More
Rav Moshe (ibid. 28) points out that the Rambam is not relevant to our discussion, as he refers to chazarat hashatz in which all ten are actively involved. After all, listening to the chazan constitutes full participating in chazarat hashatz. Following the majority just solves the issue of the weaker connection of those who already davened. (Shulchan Aruch, OC 124:4 supports this distinction.) The Magen Avraham (/Mishna Berura) can be understood as being based on the quality of chazarat hashatz. If six obligated plus four others are doing so, it is complete enough to justify it being preceded by a preparatory silent Shemoneh Esrei, even though its participants are not credited with tefilla b’tzibbur.
Next week we will put things into halachic and philosophical perspective and give basic recommendations.
Chemdat Yamim Moreshet Shaul: The Goal of an Agricultural Yeshiva – part I
Based on Siach Shaul, Pirkei Machshava V’Hadracha p. 263 (address at the laying of the cornerstone of the Yeshiva Chakla’it in Kfar Haroeh)
Rabbis in Midrash
Lessons
fast navigation
Shoftim TESHUVA IN COURT OF LAW?
Parshat Shoftim-Chodesh Elul
Why does parshat Shoftim always come out during Elul? This innovative and central explanation is an eye-opener regarding many aspects of Judaism.
The Month of Elul TESHUVA IS THE ANSWER
The month of Elul serves as a vital time for self-reflection and personal accountability to prepare for true repentance.
P'ninat Mishpat P'ninat Mishpat: Realtor’s Fee on Large Commercial Building – part I
(based on ruling 85031 of the Eretz Hemdah-Gazit Rabbinical Courts)
(based on ruling 85031 of the Eretz Hemdah-Gazit Rabbinical Courts)
P'ninat Mishpat Complaints about Contractor’s Work – part II
(based on ruling 83037.1 of the Eretz Hemdah-Gazit Rabbinical Courts)
(based on ruling 83037.1 of the Eretz Hemdah-Gazit Rabbinical Courts)
Chemdat Yamim Moreshet Shaul: The Goal of an Agricultural Yeshiva – part I
Based on Siach Shaul, Pirkei Machshava V’Hadracha p. 263 (address at the laying of the cornerstone of the Yeshiva Chakla’it in Kfar Haroeh)
Based on Siach Shaul, Pirkei Machshava V’Hadracha p. 263 (address at the laying of the cornerstone of the Yeshiva Chakla’it in Kfar Haroeh)
Chemdat Yamim The Goal of an Agricultural Yeshiva – part II
Based on Siach Shaul, Pirkei Machshava V’Hadracha p. 263 (address at the cornerstone laying for the Yeshiva Chakla’it in Kfar Haroeh – 1938)
Based on Siach Shaul, Pirkei Machshava V’Hadracha p. 263 (address at the cornerstone laying for the Yeshiva Chakla’it in Kfar Haroeh – 1938)
Re'e NEVER EXTREME EXCEPT ISRAEL
Parshat Re'eh
Judaism is against extremism, so how can we understand the seemingly extreme statements found in our sages in favor of living in the Land of Israel and against living in Chutz laAretz? The article deals with the seeming contradiction between the strength of Free-Will and the strength of being influenced by our surroundings.
Ekev DANCE FOR ISRAEL- FOR YOUR BENEFIT
Parshat Eikev
Description: The 7 Haftarot we read after Tisha B'Av ("Shiva D'Nichemta") surely get us excited that they're coming TRUE, and awaken us to yearn, dance & join the return to Zion! The short article also deals with the problems and solutions facing the American Jewish community as discussed at a recent panel, as well as the question why Jews come from America to Israel to help when we face problems, but Israelis don't come to aid Jews in America when they face anti-Semitism.
P'ninat Mishpat P'ninat Mishpat: Complaints about Contractor’s Work – part II
(based on ruling 83037.1 of the Eretz Hemdah-Gazit Rabbinical Courts)
(based on ruling 83037.1 of the Eretz Hemdah-Gazit Rabbinical Courts)
Chemdat Yamim Moreshet Shaul: Twin Foundations
Based on Siach Shaul, Pirkei Machshava V’Hadracha p. 690
Based on Siach Shaul, Pirkei Machshava V’Hadracha p. 690
